Friere Post 1
===
[00:00:00]
Welcome to Kathy on the couch, your podcast for everyday clinicians who sit with grief, trauma, and the hardest human experiences every day. You weren't meant to carry this alone, and this is a space for therapists who hold space for others and sometimes need a place to be held to. I am Kathy and I am your EMDR consultant, trainer, and theologist specializing in.
Methods of death, dying, and bereavement. I created this podcast to support those who do the deep work, especially trauma and grief therapists [00:01:00] and EMDR clinicians needing a soft place to land who want real conversations, meaningful support in a community where the hard questions are finally welcome. We also are thrilled to share and announce are Kathy on the Couch Membership Community, which is your home for grief and trauma consultation professional growth.
It's by therapist for therapists where you find a monthly consultation group, you'll find a monthly N-B-C-C-C-E training. You'll get access to a course, module and resource kit. We're so happy to have you in one place and you don't have to go looking for all those items in all the places. You can just come here so we hold space for those who hold it all.
That's our mission where we talk honestly about all clinical challenges in the business of being a healer through curriculum development. Training and breaking the silence to lead and thrive in the field without losing ourselves in the process. So if you're looking to join for deeper connection, I invite you to join our membership community to help you [00:02:00] learn and grow.
Or if you're an EMDR therapist looking to be certified or a consultant, we have our program EMDR University. Remember to give us a five star reading wherever you get your podcast. Now let's get comfortable and let's head on over to the couch.
Or if you're an EMDR therapist looking to be certified or a consultant, we have our program EMDR University. Now let's get comfortable and let's head on over to the couch.
Welcome to our podcast. This is the version number two. This is our first part in the pedagogical theory, and we're discussing Paolo Ferrera and the banking model of the trauma and being taught at I Am Kathy Couch. Your. EMDR, consultant and dermatologist. So today we're gonna talk about the moment that a lot of us in clinical training can probably recognize [00:03:00] you're sitting at
a continuing education event. Maybe it's in a hotel ballroom, maybe it's in a webinar. Maybe it's a training. You paid real money to attend, and the presenter is talking and talking and talking, and you're watching The slides change and you're doing your best to stay present, but.
Somewhere around slide 47, you realize I have no absolutely no say in this and I have not been invited once to think I've just been receiving. And here's the thing, you're a trauma clinician. You understand nervous system regulation. You know what threat responses look like, and you know what it feels like in your own body when agency.
Disappears. And yet somehow you've normalized spending your professional development hours in an environment that does exactly that. And so it's really a dichotomy in the brain, isn't it? And that's what today's episode is about. And the theorists who named it decades before neuroscience could even explain it biologically.
[00:04:00] And it's a Brazilian educator named Paulo Frere. He. Is being honored today as part of our six part series, the Roots of the Revolution, why Pedagogical Theory belongs in Clinical Training Spaces. And so we're gonna explore him as a foundational thinker who still shapes how we design professional learning.
And today we're gonna discuss his banking model of education, which is essentially what I've described above, why it matters and what neuroscience confirmed about it and what it looks like when we choose a different way. But before we get to Frere, I wanna take just a moment to orient the new listeners.
If you've already heard the series introduction, episode zero, feel free to skip ahead. But if you're coming into this episode fresh, here's what you need to know. This series is built on a single premise that the way we teach is inseparable from what we teach, and that this idea of process is also [00:05:00] content.
And if you're a trauma informed clinician who teaches. Trains supervisors or leads in any capacity. Then the design of your educational spaces is a clinical and ethical question, not just a logistical one. And we wanna invite our limbic system into the experience, which is our nervous system, our felt sense.
And over these six episodes, we're looking at Fre, Dewey, Vygotsky, Montessori, bell Hooks, and each one identified something that neuroscience and trauma research has since confirmed empirically. And they were also a way ahead of their time in the clinical training world is just catching up. So today we're gonna start with prayer and we start here because his critique is, in my view, the most foundational.
He asks a question that everything else flows from what are we actually teaching people when we teach them in a particular way. So as I said, he was a. A Brazilian educator and philosopher, born in [00:06:00] 1921 and spent most of his early career working with impoverished and marginalized communities. And a lot of his work centers around the social work theme of oppression or the therapy term of oppression, specifically in literacy education.
So he teaches people to read who'd never been given this opportunity to learn, and that's the foundation of a lot of his work. His master work, the pedagogy of the oppress was published in 1970, but it was written in exile. Isn't that crazy? Uh, what happened was the Brazilian military government imprisoned him for what they call the subversive Act, teaching the peasants to read.
So we're here, learning with him and we're beginning to understand that teaching people to read at that time was considered politically dangerous. And the act of literacy, of giving people access to language to their own capacity for critical thinking was threatening enough to [00:07:00] a government that relied on the passivity of the population that they literally exiled the man who is doing it.
So the context is not incidental to understanding prayer. His entire framework is built on the recognition that education is never neutral. It either domesticates or liberates. It either reinforces existing power or it challenges. And the dominant model of education, what he called the banking model does the former.
So what is the banking model? First language here is precise and worth sitting with. I finally had words for what this was when I first began examining and internalizing this concept. And this is where the teacher in the banking model is the authoritative depositor of knowledge. And the student is just this empty account, a vessel to be filled.
And teaching is the act of making the deposits and learning is the act of receiving those deposits without [00:08:00] alteration, distortion, or resistance. Teacher talks, student listens, teacher knows, student does not know yet, but will know once the teacher has deposited the correct information to them. And the student's role is to receive store reproduce accurately what's been given to them, and it does not merely fail to educate this model.
It actively teaches learners what in EMDR, or Beliefs or CBT, it teaches them to distrust themselves. And that's not what we want. We want a regulated receiving system that can trust and receive the information and incorporate accurately. And Freir was explicit that this model is not ped pedagogically neutral.
It's politically loaded, and I'm still putting those pieces together for myself. But I do understand it trains learners to be passive and docile and accepting of authority. So whether [00:09:00] it be an evaluator, whether it be a teacher, someone looking at your training materials, anybody that's in this position of authority.
That sort of commands this ideology is not going to be well received by the nervous system on the opposite end. And it tells 'em implicitly and explicitly that their own experience, their own perception, and their own existing knowledge is without value until it's validated by someone with institutional power.
It rewards compliance, it penalizes critique, and here's a line I keep coming back to that I want every trainer and educator in the field to hold the banking model. Fair Wrote, attempts to control, thinking and action leads men and women to adjust the world and inhibits their creative Power Hour. Adjust to the world, not examine it, not question it, not change it, adjust to it.[00:10:00]
So in clinical terms, we recognize this power and control cycle immediately. We call it learned helplessness. We have an externalized locus of control. We call it the internalized belief. So in complex trauma presentations, that one's own perceptions can't be trusted. That's where we get to. This idea of C-P-T-S-D, because now it's not this lived experience, now it's this internalized relief about themselves based on the experience, and that's part of the C-P-T-S-D criteria.
And that authority defines the reality and that safety requires submission. And what happens in our limbic system are spidey senses. That does not feel safe. There's something neuro acceptively that we feel is off and we can't put a name to it. And the banking model of education is a structural one, and it's a replication of those dynamics of disempowerment and disenfranchising, and that's [00:11:00] where the oppressive, work comes in.
Here's what I think is gets especially interesting for those of us in trauma-informed clinical work. Because Fre was writing in a philosophical and political terms. He was working from lived observation and critical theory, and he didn't have FMRI data. He didn't have polyvagal theory, he didn't have the neuroscience of agency behind it.
But what do we know? He was right. And now we have the biology to explain why. Research on the prefrontal cortex. We're gonna look at that. When we look at Simon Sinek has been explained as a region most associated with executive functioning, with integration with the kind of higher order thinking we're trying to support in that training room.
And it consistently shows that perceived loss of agency activates threat circuitry. Lemme say that again. It consistently shows that loss of agency the ability to [00:12:00] decide and critique for oneself activates threat circuitry. Reflect for a minute, go back to your own training experiences. What do you notice?
Amy Armand's work at Yale has been particularly clarifying on this, when the learner cannot influence the pace, the direction, or relevance of their learning, when their questions are unwelcome, when their experience is related as irrelevant to the content being delivered, the amygdala registers that as a threat, and under that threat, the norepinephrine and dopamine systems that support higher order cognition are disrupted.
It working memory narrows, cognitive flexibility decreases, and the learner becomes less able to integrate this new information, and not because they're difficult, resistant, disengaged, uninterested, but because our nervous system hasn't correctly identified that this environment is not safe, [00:13:00] or excuse me, has identified that this environment's not safe for the exploration, and that's the limbic system.
Okay. That's, what's that felt sense is that idea that we can't explain, but we know is there that's inside the limbic system, and the banking model is not merely philosophically problematic. It's neurologically counterproductive. Conversely, research on what's called age agentic learning, in which learners have meaningful choice, influence over their educational experiences shows.
Enhanced dopaminergic reward signaling, improve memory consolidation, and greater capacity for creative and integrative thinking. We study this memory Reconsolidation and Reconsolidation experience in EMDR therapy. It's very critical for intuitive what brain imaging now demonstrates. When people are treated as active agents in their own learning.
We learn better. [00:14:00] When we're treated as passive recipients, we learn less. The cost is not cognitive, but it's also relational and psychological. For those of us trained in polyvagal theory, the translation is fairly direct. A banking model environment signals your input is not needed here. Your nervous system's not welcome here, comply and receive, and that is a ventral vagal exit, not the entry.
And this is important because critique without alternative is just despair. He proposed a model he called problem posing education, which is, there throughout the developmental consultation model. And this is the idea that it's grounded in what he calls praxis, the integration of reflection and action.
And this is what the framework, is based on, is that in problem posing education? The teacher does not deposit information. The teacher poses problems. So as consultants and trainers, our job is [00:15:00] to pose problems, okay? And in those problems, the teacher poses them drawn from the lived reality of learners, and learning emerges from this collaboration.
Fre talks about dialogue, examination, questioning, and then action upon those problems. And the teacher is also the learner. And this gets to my point in a few of my posts that we are also impacted by this process. And that's what's also missing in the banking model, is that the authority is not impacted by the information coming their way.
The learner is also the teacher, and knowledge is not. A fixed commodity to be transferred. It's a living process to be created together. And I wanna translate this directly into what it looks like in professional training spaces, because I think it's an easy read yes, that's lovely, but how do I actually do that in a six [00:16:00] hour CE event?
Well, here's what it looks like in concrete terms. It looks like beginning our training by genuinely eliciting what participants know. Treating that knowledge is foundational. It's not as a warmup exercise, not as a performance of inclusion, but it's actual data that shapes what we do next. It looks like designing our content around questions that participants actually have, rather than content we assume that they need.
There's a real difference between those two things, and the participants can feel it. So it looks like creating a genuine space for dissent. For alternative frameworks for the kind of productive disagreement that advances both individual and collectivistic understanding of the material. A training room where everyone agrees with everything the trainer says is not a sign of success.
It's a sign that the banking model is operating at full capacity. And it looks like modeling intellectual humility. The willingness of [00:17:00] the trainer to be changed by the encounter is the pivotal part. Of the developmental consultation framework to say, I hadn't thought of it that way before. That's useful.
Thank you. A trainer who can't be questioned is not a teacher. They're a depositor. Depositors do not create conditions for learning. They create conditions for compliance.
The relevance of re's critique of the banking model extends far beyond general pedagogy in professional training spaces, especially those preparing clinicians to work with trauma. Replicating the dynamics of the banking model is not a neutral pedagogical misstep. Okay? It is a relational reenactment.
We talk about trauma reenactment. This is a relational reenactment. Sit with that for a moment when trainers correct [00:18:00] participants publicly penalize, dissent, or reward performance of agreement, they're not just privileging content over dialogue for participants with histories of relational trauma.
These DI dynamics reactivate familiar experiences of invalidation. Powerlessness and relational threat. When I was working at a summer camp, we had a lot of inner city youth from the University of Chicago, and it was in Devan, Wisconsin. And students were bused 90 minutes away from Chicago to Devan.
And we ran various youth and child groups. And I was in the child, adolescent unit and I had. A mentor that talked to me about this model of not chastising or publicly shaming participants in front of others and the impact that had up on them. And this was a very profound, realization.
At that time, I was just barely 20 and [00:19:00] I was able to begin understanding these power dynamics, and I began thinking about this as the heart of the structural argument and began using that experience to give words. That this does not require intent in regards to public shaming. The, I had this experience in a training community.
When I asked a question, I was publicly shamed for it, and that does not feel good to my nervous system at the time. And this is the heart of the structural argument. A trainer can be warm and well-intentioned. Deeply committed to learners and still design a learning environment that communicates implicitly and repeatedly that the learner's own experience is irrelevant to the content being delivered.
Fair helps us name the dynamic. Clearly, the banking model is not an accident. It's a choice and a different choice. It's possible.
So as I began to reflect on these experiences, [00:20:00] as I began conceptualizing my work in the developmental consultation framework, I've observed patterns in lots of professional learning spaces that I began reflecting on, especially those preparing clinicians to work with areas of trauma, grief, human suffering, anti-oppression work.
And understanding that some of those spaces can unintentionally lead to limiting growth. Two terms, help us name these patterns that I've developed. Strategic scarcity and demeanor of preciousness. So in professional spaces, there's a specific quiet reactivity that occurs when knowledge is held at a high altitude.
It's not just about maintaining quality, it's about strategic scarcity. Strategic scarcity describes intentional narrowing. Of access to knowledge, methods, opportunities, it shows up in the way organizations manage inner circles and the community knowledge methods or framework [00:21:00] are treated less as gifts to the broader community and more guarded proprietary wisdom and the penalty for not performing agreement for questioning assumptions or introducing a different lived perspective.
It is received in a subtle, bureaucratic, and slow moving experience. Invitations. Endorsements, opportunities to participate at higher levels are withheld, and those on the outside may find paths in intentionally narrowed, culturally rigid, financially prohibitive, or creating an environment where only those who mirror existing structures can advance.
So within the developmental consultation framework. We identify this as a demeanor of preciousness, a posture claiming the work is so fragile it can only be trusted to a select few first's. Critique of the banking model really illuminates and lights up this dynamic when learning spaces prioritize.
Preserving authority and [00:22:00] hierarchy over development. Exchange of ideas. They shift from being environments of growth to mechanisms of control. So strategic scarcity, paired with demeanor or preciousness ensures learners remain in a state of perpetual waiting, always seeking permission, recognition, or access that may never come.
And this is. Essential as the developmental consultation framework is a essential companion framework. It recognizes that learners, whether consultees or trainees, move up through a predictable developmental design or stages, each with distinct needs, vulnerabilities, and capacities. And this is not so different than what we do with clients, you guys in early stages.
Consultees often experience heightened self-doubt, fear of evaluation, tendency to defer to perceived authority, AKA, the therapist, and they may over [00:23:00] rely on the consultant or the therapist's expertise and suppress their own intuition or perform competence to avoid shame. And these aren't personal failings, they're just developmental reality.
Ease. And when training environment mirrors that banking model, it locks learners into this early developmental stage reinforcing dependency, compliance, fear misattunement, and the structure itself communicates your job is to receive. Our job is to deliver. Your external internal experience is not part of the curriculum.
And from the DCF perspective, that's not merely ineffective. It's just developmentally regressive and prevents a natural progression of autonomy, reflective capacity, and collaborative clinical reasoning. It obscures the consultants' responsibility. And in our model, the consultants just adjust their stance.
So what about being changed by the encounter? [00:24:00] I wanna share something personal here because I think it's relevant and I, because I think Freir would probably insist on it. And in developing this series and reading freir carefully, not as an academic exercise, but as a practitioner, an intuitive, someone very curious.
It felt less like encountering a new theory and more like finding language for something I'd already been living grappling with experiencing and the orientation towards consultation rather than a pronouncement or an announcement. And this instinct to ask what others know before offering what I know.
I can't tell you how many times Consultees have looked shocked when I. Appeared impacted by something that they have shared or their lived experiences internalized by myself and the dialogue and the comfort with which the dynamic presented itself to the consultee. I [00:25:00] could see their neurobiology just shipped, and Fre Freir didn't create them.
He named them. And there's something genuinely clarifying about that. About finding this philosophical and political articulation for principles that have been developed for years through practice and relationship and discussed in therapy, supervision, and consultation rooms. But we don't discuss this relational component of how to deliver consultation or clinical supervision
this is a sticky factor in any of those environments where we're leading training, consulting, teaching. I think a lot of clinicians who have been in this work for a while have this experience, and I know that because I've talked to them, and the principles of genuine dialogue of consultation primarily is a leadership orientation of increasing others' capacity rather than one's own centrality.
These tend to emerge organically from deep clinical work. The [00:26:00] therapeutic relationship teaches them if you let it, and also it's meant to change us as well. And that's what the Develop the Developmental Consultation Framework proposes is that what Freir offers is the explanation of why those principles work, which is tied into Simon Sinek,
we know what we do, but do we know why we do it? Very powerful. I was very moved by him when I engaged with him in a business class. I was teaching at a college. He was introduced to me and I went and got his book and this concept of why just continues to resonate. And I have been marinating and gathering little pieces of this work for a long time, and it was so persistently seductive that I could not resist.
Birthing the framework, and I think that's what we need to understand is why these principles work and. Okay. [00:27:00] Interestingly enough, this is exactly the tension that led to the development of what the developmental consultation framework is. It didn't begin with theory. It began with the same way prayer began.
Pedagogy of the oppressed was being exiled because he wanted to teach people to read. He went in isolation. He wrote it. He thought about it the same as I did. He thought about his experiences. He thought about the people that he was trying to teach literacy to, the systems involved in the analysis, and I took that and I did the same thing.
And it came from sitting with Consultees as myself being a consultant over many years of noticing something very simple when consultation was organized around expert pronouncement learning stall. But when consultation was organized around dialogue in Interoception Advanced, when the Consultees thinking [00:28:00] became the starting point, development accelerated.
So this framework formalizes that observation that the Consultee presents their case not just as content, but as a real time developmental assessment. Alright. Tell me where you're at and where your struggles are. What training have you received and where are the gaps that's so important? The way they formulate their case, the art of linguistics.
If we wanna go into Steven Pinker's work with linguistics, who's someone I've recently been getting into. The way that they articulate the case, they have a dialogue about it, the questions they ask, the places they get stuck. These are not problems to correct they're indicators of where that clinician currently sits in the developmental trajectory.
So from their consultation becomes something very different from supervision is expertise. Instead of correcting the clinician, the consultant identifies the next developmental edge [00:29:00] and does what's Vygotsky calls scaffolding gives micro learning sessions toward that developmental edge, not above, not below.
These micro learning experiences scaffold towards this experience and construction consultation becomes a structured dialogue, which if you step back, it is a fre and idea knowledge is not deposited. It's co-created, co relived, coex experienced in the moment. We have a framework of course, but when we forget the relational experience of how we're presented and received in all of those dynamics.
We're missing a lot of material, and the role of the consultant is not to be the smartest, but to be the person most responsible for maintaining conditions where thinking can develop. And this is where the DCF becomes quietly political in the way Fre political, because the developmental consultation model [00:30:00] resists something called ableism.
It refuses the idea that there's one correct. Level of executive functioning clinical articulation required to participate. Instead, it assumes every clinician arrives at consultation with different cognitive styles, different developmental histories, biology lived experiences, educational experiences, different access to language, and our job is not to raise the bar and become some abstract ideal of competence.
The consultant's job is to meet the consultee where they actually are. What they've received, what they've internalized, what they've practiced, and help them move one step further. And that shift from evaluation to developmental scaffolding, changes the entire emotional climate of consultation. People start thinking more clearly.
They take risks, they expose uncertainty, and that's where the real learning begins.
This connects to something Bell Hooks wrote, which we'll spend some more time with [00:31:00] in episode five, about the teacher's willingness to be changed by the encounter. And this is so imperative. I love this story I'm about to tell you. And it's about the idea that we can ourselves be influenced and it's not a technique, not as a best practice, but as a description of what it means to genuinely be.
In relationship with people we're teaching to have a co-learning environment to be in a place of genuine inquisitiveness. So I want to offer you what that image of transformation looks like when it actually arrives. And this is a personal experience that I had, the 2017 film, only the Brave It tells the true story of the Granite Mountain hotshot.
The elite wildland firefighting crew who lost 19 of 20 members in the Yarnell Hill Fire of 2013. And it has a scene that I return to often when I'm thinking [00:32:00] about this or wanna demonstrate the concept to Consultee the character in there. Jennifer Connolly, who's played by Amanda Marsh, confronts her husband about having changed her mind about wanting children.
It's been something they've been. Trying to navigate and establish with his work schedule and they just have not been able to come through a resolution. As a couples therapists, I'm always, looking at these ideas and she had been clear throughout their marriages that she did not want them, and now she has an internal shift in her schema that she does.
So what happens? The argument follows. We see the tension building, we see the distress, and then here's the argument. And she says something that stopped me in my place. In the scene, they have this experience. He shares with her, this wasn't our agreement. And she says. [00:33:00] No, because you changed me.
Our relationship changed me, and that is why I have been changed. I've been changed by you. And it was not an accusation, it was a fact. It was a testimony to what genuine relationship had done to her over time. Describes it so vividly about what the relational experience has changed within her without permission, without a plan, without her intending it, because that is what real relationships do.
She didn't decide to be changed. She was changed by the relational experience, by proximity, by attunement. By grappling with the conflicts by love, the slow act accumulation of shared life with someone whose humanity had worked on her in ways she could not have predicted, and that's what genuine teaching is supposed to do.
I hadn't yet pulled that [00:34:00] concept and put this all together when I saw that movie, but when I wrote this or I thought of that scene and. It occurred to me that this is not manufacturing of compliance in my teaching experience, not depositing, but an actual relationship in the energetic field and space, and allow that relationship to do what relationships do, which is to change everyone involved.
A training space designed to prevent the trainer from being changed has opted out of the relationship. It is chosen transaction over transformation, and the cause of that choice is born not only by participants, but by the trainers who leave the room, the same person they entered it every time. So we're gonna close today's episode the way the written post on the developmental consultation framework does with a set of questions because the framework.
Developed by Paula Ferre was not only [00:35:00] theoretical, it was transformational. The developmental consultation framework, the diagnostic orientation that he proposed becomes a design, and it shifted into a design and a structure of my learning space, the way my consultation unfolded, and it was such a powerful message that I just had to share.
The way questions are invited, the way authority is used determines whether development is possible in the room. So these aren't philosophical questions. They're design questions and the answers to them shape whether learning happens and whether it happens safely. Here are five questions I wanna offer you to sit with when you're developing your next CE training, running a supervision group, leading a call, designing any professional learning space.
Maybe it's your first curriculum. First, in what ways does my training design position participants as passive recipients rather than active contributors? [00:36:00] What is the intentional design component of the relational experience? Where am I making deposits? Where am I opening dialogue and the developmental consultation framework?
This question is central because development begins not with my thinking, with the consultees thinking. If participants aren't actively constructing knowledge, developmental consultation can occur. Second, how do I respond when a participant challenges content I'm presenting? Does that response invite further dialogue?
Does it foreclose? It does my nervous system shut down? And be honest with yourself here. What does my body do when someone pushes back? Because this developmental consultation challenge is not disruption. It's data about. Where thinking is happening. Third, whose knowledge counts in my room, whose experience is treated as evidence and whose this treated as interesting, but ultimately subordinate to the expert content?
One of the things the framework [00:37:00] tries to correct is the assumption that expertise flows only one direction. It's bidirectional In reality, consultation becomes developmentally useful in multiple forms of knowledge are allowed to shape and influence this dynamic. Fourth, am I willing to be changed by the encounter?
Am I willing to be changed by my encounter? No performing openness, actually willing, because the moment the consultant becomes immune to change the room already moved out of dialogue, back into hierarchy. Fifth, what structural features of my training space, physical layout, pacing, participation structures, or even how I respond, reinforce that banking model.
And where did they challenge it? And we treat these in the DCF framework as developmental infrastructure. The structure of the space that either promotes thinking or constraints it, these aren't comfortable questions for most of us. They weren't for me, but they're the right ones and they're worth returning to.
[00:38:00] Every time you step into a teaching or consultation role, which if you're a trauma informed clinical professional, it's probably more than you think because consultation, supervision, and training are not just methods of transmitting knowledge. They're developmental environments and the way we design those environments determines what kind of clinicians and what kind of thinking are allowed to grow.
So in closing, Paulo Ferre never worked with trauma clinicians. He was writing about literacy education with marginalized communities in South America in the 1960s and seventies, and he was, as far as I know, not thinking about CD credit hours or courses or approved training requirements. It's, and yet as content is central to the argument that the dominant model of education is inherently dehumanizing, and that this dehumanization has physiological and psychological content consequences decades later, like clinical description of what happens in the nervous system when a learner is treated as a passive object rather than an active subject.
He named the political [00:39:00] problem what neuroscience has confirmed as a biological one. And going back to Simon Sinek, that is why work belongs in clinical training spaces, not because it's historically significant. Because it's true, and because we are still in much of professional education operating from the model he critiqued, we can do better.
The first step is being able to name what we're working against. This is also the insight underneath the developmental consultation framework we're here to be able to talk about what we're working against and the ideas that we can do better. So a little bit of foreshadowing coming up in episode two, we're gonna dive into Joan Dewey, experience democracy. And what it actually means for learning to be grounded in live reality. That's a conversation I'm really looking forward to.
If today's episode was useful, share it with a colleague, a supervisor, a training director, anyone who occupies a teaching [00:40:00] role in clinical spaces. And if you wanna go deeper, the full written post on Paulo Frere and the developmental consultation. Framework with a PA citations and deeper explanation of the model is available at Rewire 360 blog.
It's called The Rooted Practice. So I'm Kathy Couch with Rewire 360, where we help therapists learn, lead, and thrive. Thanks for being here, and we'll see you next time.
Thank you so much for joining us on another episode of Kathy on the Couch, the podcast for Everyday clinicians. We hope today's conversation has inspired you, sparked new ideas, and offered you practical tools you can bring into your own practice. Whether you're just starting out in the mental health field or you are a seasoned clinician.
We're grateful to have you as part of our growing community, and Rewire 360 is here to companion you along your clinical career path from the moment you begin your professional journey. We offer comprehensive support and resources that guide you at every stage. Our curriculum is [00:41:00] designed to fill the gaps often found in the marketplace, providing advanced training, consultation, and mentorship as you progress in your journey.
Visit us at the Kathy on the couch. Community, the trauma community for clinicians or the EMDR University community for EMDR clinicians. Be sure to check out our show notes for a full list of resources. And don't forget to visit our swag store at Rewire 360 Shop. And this information shared on this podcast reflects perspectives and experiences of our guest hosts.
Is not intended to substitute for professional consultation, supervision, or individual guidance. If you have questions about how to apply any of the concepts, we encourage you to consult with your clinical supervisor, consultant, or licensing board. As always, follow those research based protocols and best practices in your work.
We're here to walk along beside you as you deepen your clinical understanding, and until next time, keep connecting, keep learning, and keep rewiring for success. Take care. [00:42:00] This is Kathy on the couch and on behalf of our entire team, thank you for being with us on the couch and we'll see you in the next episode.
Welcome to Kathy on the couch, your podcast for everyday clinicians who sit with grief, trauma, and the hardest human experiences every day. You weren't meant to carry this alone, and this is a space for therapists who hold space for others and sometimes need a place to be held to. I am Kathy and I am your EMDR consultant, trainer, and theologist specializing in.[00:43:00]
Methods of death, dying, and bereavement. I created this podcast to support those who do the deep work, especially trauma and grief therapists and EMDR clinicians needing a soft place to land who want real conversations, meaningful support in a community where the hard questions are finally welcome. We also are thrilled to share and announce are Kathy on the Couch Membership Community, which is your home for grief and trauma consultation professional growth.
It's by therapist for therapists where you find a monthly consultation group, you'll find a monthly N-B-C-C-C-E training. You'll get access to a course, module and resource kit. We're so happy to have you in one place and you don't have to go looking for all those items in all the places. You can just come here so we hold space for those who hold it all.
That's our mission where we talk honestly about all clinical challenges in the business of being a healer through curriculum development. Training and breaking the silence to [00:44:00] lead and thrive in the field without losing ourselves in the process. So if you're looking to join for deeper connection, I invite you to join our membership community to help you learn and grow.
Or if you're an EMDR therapist looking to be certified or a consultant, we have our program EMDR University. Remember to give us a five star reading wherever you get your podcast. Now let's get comfortable and let's head on over to the couch.
Welcome to Kathy on the couch, your podcast for everyday clinicians who sit with grief, trauma, and the hardest human experiences every day. You weren't [00:45:00] meant to carry this alone, and this is a space for therapists who hold space for others and sometimes need a place to be held to. I am Kathy and I am your EMDR consultant, trainer, and theologist specializing in.
Methods of death, dying, and bereavement. I created this podcast to support those who do the deep work, especially trauma and grief therapists and EMDR clinicians needing a soft place to land who want real conversations, meaningful support in a community where the hard questions are finally welcome. We also are thrilled to share and announce are Kathy on the Couch Membership Community, which is your home for grief and trauma consultation professional growth.
It's by therapist, four therapists. Where you find a monthly consultation group, you'll find a monthly N-B-C-C-C-E training. You'll get access to a course module and resource kits. We're so happy to have you in one place and you don't have to go looking for all [00:46:00] those items in all the places. You can just come here so we hold space for those who hold it all.
That's our mission where we talk honestly about all clinical challenges in the business of being a healer through curriculum development. And training and breaking the silence to lead and thrive in the field without losing ourselves in the process. So if you're looking to join for deeper connection, I invite you to join our membership community to help you learn and grow.
Or if you're an EMDR therapist looking to be certified or a consultant, we have our program EMDR University. Remember to give us a five star reading wherever you get your podcast. Now let's get comfortable and let's head on over to the couch.
